Just Eats Life's Jen Phanomrat (and New Yorker for life!) and American-in-London Katie Quinn look at the hella complicated history of halloumi.
Why are Brits so obsessed with halloumi? Just Eats Life's Jen Phanomrat (and New Yorker for life!) and expat-in-Europe Katie Quinn look at the hella complicated history of halloumi.
Some more ways to houdini cheese into your life:
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Jen Phanomrat: Hey, I'm Jen Phanomrat.
Katie Quinn: And I'm Katie Quinn. And you're listening to Either Side Eaters.
Jen: A show where we explore food culture from across the Atlantic Ocean. So we are both video creators who are endlessly curious about the intersections of food, culture, and identity, and we've been sharing and exploring it with all of our amazing viewers for several years now.
Katie: True that. And Jen, the lovely human who was just speaking, was born, was raised, and still lives in New York, and she's known as the kind of passionate cook who loves droppin’ knowledge almost as much as she loves inappropriate eggplant jokes, am I right Jen?
Jen: That's right, eggplant emoji all day every day. And Katie right here, she is from Ohio, lived in New York City for a decade, and now lives in Europe, currently in London. She's a writer with two published books under her belt, go girl, and a background in journalism, as well as a stint in culinary school.
Katie: So what is Either Side Eaters all about? Well, the idea first came up because Jen and I literally live on either side of the Atlantic Ocean and we love talking with each other about the food scene in each place. You know, we like considering the similarities and also the differences.
Jen: Mmhmm. And you know, the more we talked, the more we realized that in our conversations, regardless of the country we're talking about, there were multiple sides to all the conversations about food, and of course its ripple effects into culture and social norms. And we realized we wanted to talk about much more than just the food scene in America and Europe. We wanted to take a step back and look at the interesting issues from all around the globe.
Katie: Right. So in this show, you will: number one, gain a better understanding of food cultures around the world; two, consider some of the more prickly and tricky topics that go hand in hand with food, such as social equality, issues of class and wealth; and number three, you will leave with brand new delicious ideas of things that you can make in your kitchen.
Jen: Yeah, so basically we gonna have a party (laughing), and so let's kick things off with our first topic: halloumi.
Katie: Halloumi. Jen, I was really not familiar with this delicious cheese before moving to London, but over here it is absolutely everywhere. And Connor and I have fallen head over heels in love with it. What's your situation over there with halloumi?
Jen: Yeah, I love halloumi but unlike over there, here, it's not readily available. At least, when I started looking for it, which was probably around 2012 to 2014, around that time, I could barely find it anywhere. And I only heard about it because of British celebrity chefs like Jamie Oliver. Can’t remember if it was Jamie Oliver or Nigella, one or the other, was like, “Here's this thing, it doesn't--you know, it has a high melting point, here's what you could do with it.” And I also at the time was watching a lot of bloggers, YouTube bloggers from the UK, and they kept talking about how, “Halloumi this and halloumi that. And so we would order in a restaurant or make it at home and have a salad.” So that's why every time I think of halloumi I can't help but say it in an accent. It just--it seems natural to me to say (British accent) “halloumi” instead of halloumi.
Katie: (British accent) Halloumi?
Jen: Hello you, hello me. (laughing)
Katie: You are such a halloumi Houdini over there with your….(laughing) halloumi puns. Yeah, it is, it is huge over here, and it's not a--it's not a British cheese. Historically speaking, it's from Cyprus. But yeah, okay, let's see. So let's talk about what halloumi is, right, for people who've never had it.
Jen: Mmhmm.
Katie: It's a white cheese, it's like semi hard, it's unripened and it's brined. So it actually, like, soaks in its own salty whey brine. A lot of places in London, they will actually have like, these big tubs, then you can just pluck it, pluck the halloumi out fresh from its brine…
Jen: Whoa.
Katie: Which is delicious. It's got--in terms of texture, it's kind of got this layered texture, almost like a mozzarella where you can kind of pull it apart. And some people call it like a squeaky cheese, because it does have this almost like this pleasant rubberiness that on your teeth, it's like, slightly squeaky.
Jen: Yeah, I like to think of it as squidgy.
Katie: Squidgy!
Jen: It's squidgy cheese. (laughing)
Katie: Yes, I support that.
Jen: So you're saying it--it's a cheese from Cyprus, yeah?
Katie: So that is like the general answer to that question, because just the mix of cultures in that area, that like, East Mediterranean and Levant areas of the world. And this is a historic cheese. It was around a long, long time ago. I mean before the Ottoman Empire invaded Cyprus in 1571, there were descriptions of halloumi that were recorded. I mean, Italian travelers to Cyprus wrote about halloumi in a manuscript from 1556 AD.
Jen: Whoa.
Katie: (laughing) This cheese has been around a long time. And with many things in the world, the country lines shift, they change, people move, people immigrate, and they bring culture and recipes and all this stuff with them. So when you go back that far, origin stories are easily disputed. Right? So there's no, like, super definitive answer. But the fact is that it is, it was a really big thing in Cyprus, and entire communities historically would join forces, get together, and make these huge batches of halloumi together. And so it was a collective, it was a collective action. It was production that like, neighbors would be making it for themselves and for each other all at once.
Jen: Look at that. Cheese has been bringing people together since the dawn of time.
Katie: Amen.
Jen: Well, not the dawn of time, but you know what I mean.
Katie: No, amen sister, I feel you. And so recipes actually varied from village to village, and get this, surnames. So last names of families, some families, actually reflected their role in halloumi production.
Jen: I love that. I would feel so proud of my name knowing that it had origins in cheese.
Katie: I know, me too. Now I kind of want to change my name.
Jen: Right? Like, stringcheese-a. (laughing)
Katie: (laughing) Jen Stringcheese-a. (laughing) Uh, I want to be like Katie Cheddarface. (laughing)
Jen: (laughing) It sounds like a diss that little Katie would tell someone in elementary school. "You’re a cheddarface.” I'm not saying that you were a bully. Just, it's a good it's a good diss, or a compliment, however you want to take that. So how did this become such a big thing in the UK?
Katie: Yeah, that's a really--that's a really good question, right? We were just talking about how, like, both of us are familiar with it because of the adoration of it from people in the UK. Right?
Jen: Mmhmm.
Katie: Basically, there--there are large colonial links between the UK and Cyprus, as there are many colonial links between the UK and many places in the world. Also, partially because of that, there has been a lot of immigration of Cypriots to the UK. But halloumi actually didn't become super, super popular in the UK until fairly recently. So there was an article on the BBC I read that said that it was really around 2000 that it started to become a popular thing here. But then by 2013, demand in the UK had surpassed that of every other European country except Cyprus.
Jen: Wow. And going back to being such a good source of protein, because I love it. I love it in burger form.
Katie: Yes.
Jen: Just having that, it's super filling. It’s squidgy.
Katie: Squidgy. Deliciously squidgy.
Jen: So it makes sense. That makes sense, why it's becoming so popular.
Katie: And now it's clearly gaining popularity in America, right? And other places.
Jen: Is it like the thing where--and I only learned of this recently, like within the past two or three years, like in Italy when things are--what's it called when they're like trademarked?
Katie: Yeah, it's called protected designation of origin.
Jen: PDO.
Katie: Yeah. Other examples of this are like Champagne, right? So for a sparkling white wine to be called Champagne, it literally has to be made in Champagne, France, using like, this very specific Champagne method of making wine. Halloumi producers in Cyprus are actually fighting to get a PDO from the European Union so that nothing can be labeled halloumi unless it's from Cyprus. And obviously they like that because that's just a better economic model for them. If anyone can make halloumi, which happens, like, dairy farmers in the UK make halloumi with cow's milk, which is not traditional, and they call it halloumi. So you can kind of see where the lines start to get blurred a little bit if um, the laws don't exist. But so yeah, I would say there are arguments on either side of it.
Jen: Yeah. Huh. So traditionally it's sheep's and goat's milk?
Katie: Right, it tends to be like a mixture of sheep's milk and goat's milk. I believe the sheep's milk is a little more traditional, maybe. But um, but really both of them, it's a combined--it's a combined milk situation.
Jen: Got it. So like, if other countries try to make their own version of halloumi--and there's different cheeses that are similar, but if they try to market something as halloumi, they gotta--like Canada, got to take out the U. It's hallomi.
Katie: Well, (laughing) I think halloumi producers in Cyprus are still fighting for this to happen. So like, currently in the EU that law does not exist, so that British producers can make it and they can make it with cow's milk from British cows and they can still call it halloumi, but that is something that, you know, who knows that might change in the next handful years, the next decade. Who knows? Well, I'll be curious to find out.
Jen: Interesting. Why is it that it has such a high melting point? Why doesn't it just melt right away?
Katie: So that has to do with how it's made, right? Because like, all cheeses are made from milk. The way that it's made then causes it to have this really tight, uh, structure. So it's--the protein molecules are like, really tightly wound together. And what happens when you melt cheese is, those protein molecules flow, right? They get bendy, kind of like a plastic that you heat up can get bendy, and so halloumi is like, “No, my protein molecules are all really tightly together and I'm not gonna flow for you, even when you heat me up.”
Jen: Yeah, I feel like, halloumi’s like, “You flex, bro? Do you even lift? Get on my level.”
Katie: “You're so lame. You melt at room temperature. Lame.” (laughing)
(midroll)
Katie: Yeah, halloumi definitely looks down its nose on brie, that's for sure.
Jen: But I love both.
Katie: I love both too. We did get some questions about how to eat halloumi.
(Call-in) Hi guys. So I spotted a package of halloumi cheese the other day, but I decided not to buy it because I wasn't sure how to eat it. What's a really easy but tasty way to enjoy it?
(Call-in) Hi Katie and Jen, I love halloumi as an appetizer, just broiled with some delicious bread or pita, but I'd love some more ideas in incorporating halloumi into a full meal, especially one that, you know, it has a nice balance between delicious fried cheese and maybe something a little more healthy. Thanks.
Katie: So how do you--how do you like to eat halloumi? I'm really curious.
Jen: I've prepared it grilled, for a halloumi burger, or like on a salad.
Katie: So like, what will you put on a halloumi burger?
Jen: Uh, the halloumi burger that I enjoy is grilled halloumi with like, roasted red bell pepper, and sandwiched in between grilled portobello buns, portobello mushroom buns.
Katie: Ohhhhh, that sounds so good.
Jen: Yeah. I like it. I'm a portobello bun girl. I know some people don't like to use it as a bun, but sometimes, like I love bread, but sometimes I just want a grilled mushroom, and so I like the combination, um, and then just grilled with some salad is a really great way to have it.
Jen: Uh, yeah.
Katie: And then in restaurants I've had it fried, like halloumi fries, right? And that's it. I haven't really--but I did try something this weekend.
Katie: Oh yeah, what’d you do, what do you make?
Jen: So I was thinking about--I wanted curry, like a Thai curry, and I really like Thai massaman curry, so it's like a yellow curry. Have you had that? With like potatoes?
Katie: Yeah, I have, yeah.
Jen: And there's peanuts in it. Yeah, so good. So I've had that with chicken, tofu, and I thought, what if I try halloumi? I did it and it worked really well.
Katie: Oh my gosh.
Jen: It was bomb.
Katie: That sounds so good.
Jen: So it was just like, it was--it was hearty, it was delicious, because it made me think about--was it Priya?
Katie: Yeah, Priya Krishna said this in a, um, actually another Food52 network podcast, The Genius Recipe Tapes with Kristen Miglore. Priya said that she actually makes a twist of saag paneer, um, that's in her book, Indian-ish, where she puts feta cheese in instead of paneer, which is super dope. But then she said that she's heard of people also adding halloumi, although she had never actually tried it.
Jen: Yeah, I couldn't get that out of my head, so I think that's what inspired me to do it with this curry. And it was just so good.
Katie: Well, so that's awesome, like, that it works with--so like with Priya’s example, it works with like a pretty classic Indian dish, with your example, it works with a pretty classic Thai dish, and you know...I love it, it's from like a--it's from a completely different part of the world, but like, yo, that doesn't matter, if it tastes delicious, just like…
Jen: It doesn't.
Katie: Put that together.
Jen: Usually there--you won't find a lot of dairy or cheese, right, in Thai food, generally. Maybe more modern food, yeah. But classically, no. But it just worked out, because I was thinking, the curry base, it's similar--you know, it has cardamom, it has--and it has some tamarind, in the massaman curry, some tamarind, some chili. Um, and then in the curry, usually I put white vinegar, but instead I was like, let me put some tomato paste for the acidity, to kind of bridge the saltiness of the halloumi…
Katie: Ooooooohhh.
Jen: ...and like, the slightly sweet nuttiness of the curry base. It was so good.
Katie: You also had told me about using halloumi as a low-carb pizza option, like, using halloumi as the crust. And that kind of blew my mind.
Jen: Yeah. How do you like to enjoy it?
Katie: We eat it a lot in like, the very typical ways. So like, pan-fried and we'll put it in a wrap or on a salad. We'll have a lot of, like, salads for lunch, and pan fry some halloumi, put it on. That's--that's definitely a go-to for us. I would say a little more special occasion stuff, um, it's really good sweet. So I mean just like, think of it as like, I don't know, like, a goat cheese, and I love goat cheese with a little drizzle of honey.
Jen: Oh yeah. That hits.
Katie: And like, halloumi with a little honey, ohhh yeah.
Jen: And it's similar to--like structurally, it's similar to a lot of different cheeses from around the world, and the one that I can closely relate it to, aside from feta, is queso fresco, or, what do you call it? Queso de freir, which is like, cheese for frying, right? Queso par freir. So in Queens, I used to order this--we had a lot of Colombian restaurants by our place, and I would always order for dessert, dulce de brevas, or higos, which are figs.
Katie: Mmmm. Ahhh.
Jen: So these beautifully macerated--like, they're just--they're just, they're broken down in this caramel, essentially, and then it's always served with a slice of queso fresco or something like it, that's firm, it's squidgy, and salty. So it has that nice contrast with the sweet, because it's super uper sweet.
Katie: (laughing) It’s super uper sweet?
Jen: Uper. I love saying uper. It's super uper sweet. (laughing) You know me. I love making up words. And that same cheese is used--it could be fried, like you're saying, either pan fried, some people deep fry it. Um, there are different Caribbean, South American countries that fry it up for breakfast. So Dominicans have queso frito--
Katie: Ohhh.
Jen: They’ll eat it with like, salami, and things like that. It’s delicious.
Katie: I'm glad you bring up breakfast, because actually, traditionally, like in Cyprus it's eaten for breakfast a lot, and it's eaten with, like, watermelon.
Jen: A Cyprus halloumi producer should call you up to--(laughing) trademark, “It’s for breakfast!”
Katie: It’s for breakfast! Ding, and like, smiling, and a tooth, like, sparkles. (laughing)
Jen: But it makes sense to eat it with watermelon, much like feta, that combination.
Katie: Yeahhhh.
Jen: I love it, I love it.
Katie: I'm just imagining myself sitting outside in Cyprus eating fresh halloumi with olives and bread and a hunka hunka fresh watermelon. (laughing)
Jen: And some mint on there.
Katie: Oh yes, mint, yeah! And that's also super traditional. Yeah.
Jen: Yeah. So there's also like--I noticed on the halloumi packages, so I wanted to do an experiment, so like, I wanted to really review them--
Katie: Oh yeah, that’s right!
Jen: So I opened all of the halloumis I got, and then I was examining which ones had little mint flecks on it, and then one didn't. So two did and one didn't. So yeah, what do you know like--is that always a thing, is that traditionally standard?
Katie: Yeah, so traditionally mint leaves were used as a preservative. So they were--they wrapped the halloumi in mint leaves for freshness, and then some of the flavor was imparted. So yeah that's really interesting that a couple of the packages had that, but then that the one didn't.
Jen: Yeah, and the one that didn't was the more firm, squidgy, saltier one than the other two. They all said that they were products of Cyprus, but they were all distributed in New Jersey. (laughing) So like Lindenhurst, New Jersey. I was like, “Oh that's interesting.” Um, yeah, but they all said “Product of Cyprus.”
Katie: Ok, ok. Yeah that's really interesting. So just like with any other cheese, halloumi, the longer it's aged--and typically halloumi is a fresh cheese, right? You don't typically find, like, aged halloumi, but like with any other cheese, the longer it is aged, it gets a little dryer, um, it gets stronger in flavor, and um, also a bit saltier because the moisture leaves, and causing the saltiness to kind of have more of a punch with each bite.
Jen: Ah, so maybe that one that was squidgier and firmer and saltier--
Katie: It may have been aged longer.
Jen: Yeah, interesting. But if--let's say you can't find it. Is it easy to make at home?
Katie: I just tried making halloumi. I found a recipe on The Guardian and ordered some vegetarian rennet which arrived in 24 hours.
Jen: What??
Katie: I was like, “Hey, rennet on demand.” (laughing) And it was really simple. Here's all what happened. I heated the milk. Not super hot, though, not as hot as I do when I make yogurt at home, or make ricotta at home. And then added the rennet, stirred, let it sit for an hour. So at that time the curd had formed and had separated from the whey. And then I cut the curd into, you know, just like a grid, cubes. Let it sit for another half hour. And then I strained out the curds into, like, a sieve lined with cheesecloth, you know, with a bowl underneath it to catch the whey, let that drain for an hour, put that onto a cutting board or whatever. And I put a towel down on the cutting board as well because it still had some whey to expel from it. So I put that on there and then you take the whey that had drained out of it, put it back in a big pot and warm it, because then you poach the halloumi, you poach the dried curds in this salted whey. So add salt to the whey, poach them until they float to the top, so about a half hour. Redrain them, and then they're good to go.
Jen: Wow, so, unlike mozzarella, it doesn't require…
Katie: The pulling.
Jen: Stretching. Yeah, the pulling. Ahh.
Katie: Alright, so that's halloumi in a nutshell, right? That's painting with very broad strokes. Every--those are the basics of this amazing cheese. And I have to say, I mean, Jen, you know this because you're my good friend, but I haven't really shouted this from the rooftops, but Connor and I have been vegetarian for--since 2018, you know, with some exceptions, but pretty much vegetarian. And I have to say that I'm really grateful for halloumi for that reason because, you know, at a barbecue or something, grill up some halloumi cheese, put it between two buns with, you know, ooh, some grilled avocado or something, and it's just--there's no issue at the backyard barbecue. I appreciate that.
Jen: Yeah, I'm going to do that now, rather than consuming more beef, or you know, whatever protein. Conventionally, right, you'd add, your--you’re going and, it's like, okay, I want something of substance, I'm going to include this more regularly in my diet. But also knowing that--for, for me, for example, in the US, I feel like, or North America in general, things like quinoa are--right? They--since early 2000s, have been rising the popularity, and it's like all this--”It's a superfood,” it's marketed as something like, “It's the best protein, super complete protein you can eat.” Uh, so of course people are going to be gobbling up, just like me, like, just a ton of it. And Leo, my husband, for those who don't know, uh, is from Peru. And so I asked him, “When you were in Peru, did you eat quinoa just as often as you do now, here in our home?” He was like, “No, I didn't. We--we did, but it wasn't like, a daily thing. We wouldn't just make a quinoa bowl every day, right?” Whereas recently we would just eat a bunch of it. Um, but then learning more about how much it has affected their local economies along the Andes, and thinking about just considering that, it's like, okay, I still want to enjoy that, and we can, in a way, uh, that makes sense in moderation. But just always, I think that's why it's important, right? To dive into and have knowledge about what ingredients are available, right? So if--why are we concentrating so much on one, one grain, or in this case seed, what are the other options? What do you think about that?
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's hard though, right? It's tough, Jen, because it's like, anything, anything we eat, if we look at it too much or too closely, you can--you can make ourselves feel kind of bad about, about it.
Jen: Yeah. And I think it's good to sit in those feelings.
Katie: Totally. I mean, the thing that I really love about what you're saying and what you're suggesting is that curiosity is at the heart of it. So instead of just accepting something for what it is, grabbing it off of the grocery store shelf, it's like, well go a little bit deeper. Like, follow your curiosity into the foods you're eating, because it will benefit not just you, and you know, scratching the curiosity itch, but the ripple effects are pretty huge in terms of the food system.
(musical interlude)
Katie: So basically, uh, you know, to wrap up here, halloumi, it's hella good.
Jen: Ohhh, Katie. (laughing) Hallou-lou-la good.
Katie: Oh! Hallelujah, halloumi is good.
Jen: There you go. Hallelujah, halloumi is good.
Katie: And we hope that you guys like, maybe, maybe learned a little something about halloumi. If you, if you're not familiar with it, like, please go try it.
Jen: If you like this show, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. You can also drop us a question using the link in the show notes, and in the meantime you can see what we're up to by following us on Instagram at @jeneatslife and at @qkatie. Special thanks to the musician who wrote and performed our theme song, Brian Quinn. Hey, that's your brother. You can follow him on Instagram at @bqfunk. Bye!
Katie: Ciao!